MOO log: McLuhan on film; Ulmer, “Image”
Discussion led by Dawn (Crista) & Kelley
[log started Wed Apr 14 13:04:30 2004 EDT]
Participants: greg, cyn, msantina, Dave, Jeremy, Flanker39, Jody, magsmitch9, MadHatter, KT-Woodard2, Yasukage, Julia, Roux, Jared, Bradley, kelley, and Crista
Bradley turns the Bradley's recorder on.
Jeremy says, "everybody is a nerd in their own way"
Crista says, "that's makes what...six people?"
msantina has connected.
Crista says, "7"
Jared says, "What'd Bradley do this time."
Bradley [to Jeremy]: Yes
magsmitch9 has connected.
Jared says, "?"
MadHatter [to Jeremy]: very true
Julia has connected.
Crista says, "8, 9"
Jody has connected.
MadHatter says, "Julia's a NNNEEERRRDDD!!!"
Julia turns on the bradley's recorder
kelley has connected.
MadHatter says, "but in a cool way"
magsmitch9 says, "hi""
Flanker39 says, "Napalm!"
MadHatter says, "Agent Orange!"
Bradley says, "awright"
Crista says, "is kelley here?"
Jared says, "You know, I've got a color-blind friend visiting me this week. I think I need to introduce him to Candy Land this evening."
greg has connected.
Bradley [to Crista]: Yep
Julia runs over to MadHatter, flicks his ear, and runs away
MadHatter [to Jared]: yes!!
Bradley eyes Jared warily.
Dave has connected.
Crista says, "ok"
Dave says, "ello everyone"
Jared chucks a spitball at Julia.
MadHatter [to Julia]: Nyah!! :P
greg says, "for those of you who know what i'm talking about, todays penny arcade is awesome"
KT-Woodard2 has connected.
KT-Woodard2 says, "whats up"
Julia stops the spitball mid-air, matrix style, and sends it to MadHatter
Flanker39 says, "We are a new society. Why must we be constrained by the old conventions? When you say hello on the phone, it only means that your are listing and are there. It would make no diffrence if you ansewed the phone hello or chainsaw, the net effect is still the same."
Bradley says, "before Crista and Kelley edumacate us, I have a few announcements"
Jared goes to look at the new PA.
Jared says, "OMG! Julia is The One!"
KT-Woodard2 says, "ok"
MadHatter [to Julia]: (blocks it through use of virtual cinematography)'Go now, before I taunt you a second time'
msantina [to Bradley]: Nice ebonics.
Julia says, "I'm gonna start answering the phone, "Chainsaw?""
Bradley says, "first, is that I want you to look at ch. 31 and 33 of McLuhan for Friday"
magsmitch9 says, " i would prefer not to have someone asnwer the phone greeting me with a weapon...but that would make a good scray movie beginning""
greg trips both madhatter and julia and runs away like a little school girl
Bradley [to msantina]: I was thinking of Homer
KT-Woodard2 says, " oh ok"
Flanker39 says, "I already do so. That or aardvaark"
MadHatter says, "could be worse - could answer 'wanna frag'"
Bradley says, "second, is that next week we'll be reading the last bits of Ch 5 from McLuhan"
Bradley says, "er, Manovich"
Jeremy says, "if it's a number i don't know i'll answer the phone with "shay stadium, second base""
Bradley says, "the page numbers are on the syllabus"
KT-Woodard2 says, "we talked about automation earylier in the semester didn't we"
Bradley nods at KT-Woodard2.
magsmitch9 says, " my dad pretneds to be people hes not if its a telmarketer""
kelley says, "don't think we're not going to present, you'll get a website soon enough""
KT-Woodard2 says, " ok just checking"
Jared says, "I like to ask telemarketers what they're wearing."
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: Yep; that's why we're going back to it.
Julia [to Jared]: does it work?
Flanker39 says, "Answere the phone -kline's leach breeding facility, which sucker do you want to talk to?"
KT-Woodard2 says, " Jared i don't think you wanna know that"
Crista says, "everybody take a look at this address, kelley and i are going to going off this: http://student.wiu.edu/DL-Leffler/mcluhan-ulmer.html any questions?"
Julia [to Jared]: have you ever seen punch drunk love? it's not a good idea
Dave says, "Every once in a while my phone is disconnected. I love those days"
KT-Woodard2 says, " are you sure that they were telemarketers or phone sex operaters"
Bradley says, "third, is that if Sean doesn't attend class today, I will need a volunteer to do the seppuku thing"
greg says, "right here"
MadHatter says, "I will commit seppuku"
Crista says, "i'll do it"
Julia says, "whoa, no class seppuku"
KT-Woodard2 says, "nope"
Bradley pulls up Crista's web page
MadHatter says, "(no audible noise as head is cut off)"
Jared [to KT-Woodard2]: I prefer to make that decision for them, Kaleena.
Crista says, "did anybody, besides bradley, look at the page?"
msantina says, "Oh great, seppuku."
KT-Woodard2 says, " i am looking at it"
Julia [to Crista]: I am but it's kinda hard to read
Crista says, "ok"
Bradley [to greg and MadHatter]: You're our designated seppuku-ers. Please give us until 12:40; I need to leave a little early today.
Flanker39 says, "and yet the amazing thing is I still haven't figured out how to do anything other than speak in the moo. but then again, I was looking at the page, not comminting ritual suicide"
Crista says, "sorry"
Jared says, "Reading it now..."
msantina says, "I'm looking at it right now."
MadHatter says, "my internet sucks so I can't get it to work right"
greg says, "done"
Bradley says, "Yes, everyone dig the Web page. This is good; it will help our discussion next week, too"
kelley says, "one funny thing to think about is that not literate cultures wouldn't have the slightest clue as to what people are doing in movies, they would think it mystical. For us its easy. Why? because it works just like text or lit.""
MadHatter says, "but I am trying"
Crista [to MadHatter]: "thank you
Bradley [to Crista]: Would you post the address again?
KT-Woodard2 says, " so moives can open up a whole other world rather what exists now"
Crista says, "http://student.wiu.edu/DL-Leffler/mcluhan-ulmer.html"
kelley [to KT-Woodard2]: "yes and that's fantasy"
MadHatter says, "reading now..."
Crista says, "ok"
Crista says, "anybody not able to get the page to work?"
Bradley says, "I really like the replacement of 'haiku' for 'movie' here. A nifty idea"
Crista looks around with interest
Dave says, "it works for means"
KT-Woodard2 says, " because every aspect of the moive like the screen to the people has more than one detail too it am i am right is to what i read on this page"
Crista smiles
magsmitch9 says, "works for me too""
KT-Woodard2 says, " cool"
Flanker39 says, ""I like the comment that movies are a gestault of diffrent forms, rather than a single form."
kelley says, "when you watch a movie you are seeing many different kinds of mediums, 'but a collective art form with different individuals directing color, lighting, sound, acting, speaking'""
Crista says, "we were looking through that article that we went over in class on monday and noticed that it applied"
Crista says, "so we decided to run with it"
Bradley says, "Great. This is a very good idea; it can really help attune us to the idea of image reason"
Flanker39 says, "It is a very interesting experience to watch a movie without the musical score, and realize how much just the quite music you don't listen to changes things."
[ 1:14 pm ]
Bradley wishes we had a classroom full of eMacs. We'd make our own movies
kelley [to Bradley]: "yes!"
Dave says, "what is an emac?"
Bradley [to Crista and kelley]: What specific connections do you see?
greg keeps himself from poking bradley for suggesting that
Flanker39 says, "In short, the readining is that for all the times we've said a picture is worth a thousand words, alone, a picture is quite meaningless"
msantina says, "That is true what is said about the plot line movies and stereotypical expectations of movies."
Flanker39 says, "MACS EVIL. and I don't mean the good type of evil either."
Crista says, "in movies, you are not given a written description (i.e. a light blue, turquoise sleeveless dress), everything has to be represented as one"
kelley [to Bradley]: "that pictures speak a thougsand words"
kelley says, "or images""
Crista says, "the viewer is given one image that represents it all"
Dave says, "how can anyone say a picture alone is meaningless?"
KT-Woodard2 says, " the picture does not say a word or speak it , it shows the word in another text"
Bradley is with Dave here
Crista agrees with bradley and dave
Julia says, "SEPPUKU!"
kelley says, "it would be pretty easy for an oral culture""
msantina says, "To me is easier when everything is in visual description rather than written. "
KT-Woodard2 says, "his here!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Bradley [to Flanker39]: I can see that the picture is DIFFERENT minus the sound, but not meaningless.
greg [to Julia]: not yet
Flanker39 says, "It is not without meaning, but it is very difficult to agree on a meaning."
magsmitch9 says, "yeah, i dont think a picture is meaninglessa t all""
Jeremy says, "a picture can mean 1000 words to an individual in their own mind, it's just expressing those words to other people that is the difficult part"
Crista says, "images carry over both oral and literate cultures"
Jared [to Flanker39]: I've always found that to be a bad metaphor, anyway. As noted on the web page, in terms of description and (in particular) definition, pictures lag pretty far behind words. The only thing pictures convey better than words would is visual imagery.
kelley says, "and i didn't say it was meaningless""
Jody says, "Sometimes a picture says more than words."
Crista says, "they might mean slightly different things, but generally the same basic idea"
Julia says, "wait, is this like... if a picture sits alone in a living room, does it mean anything?"
magsmitch9 says, "defiantely a picture is different minus sound thats what sepearets a movie from a picture""
Flanker39 says, "I did not say the picture is meaningles without sound, it is a gestault that is greater than the sum of its parts"
Dave says, "there is an old Moody Blues line that says "a thousand pictures can be told from one word""
KT-Woodard2 says, " i find that pictures have words but don't say them"
Jody says, "A picture can tell the story."
Flanker39 says, "Remind me to bring in that book or writing propts I have, there are some interesting pictures that prove my poiint"
KT-Woodard2 says, " show but don't tell"
KT-Woodard2 says, " we all learn that in school right"
Flanker39 says, "If a picture is worth a thousand words, how many novels can you write with a million pictures?"
Dave [to Julia]: that wasn't a whisper if it is in all caps
magsmitch9 says, "well what are these pictures like?""
KT-Woodard2 says, " a whole lot"
kelley [to Dave]: "that's what we're focusing on. The fact that most movies derive from novels or other forms of text"
Jared [to Jody]: Sometimes. I can think of a few good examples... anybody remember the picture of the African-American soldier playing in the band at JFK's funeral and bawling his eyes out? But often, it doesn't.
msantina [to Jared]: Didn't Manovich mention something like that in the last chapter we read about pictures lagging behind?
MadHatter says, "if a picture without words is meaningless, then how are we supposed to interpret text into images (ex. - project two)"
Bradley says, "Let's not get obsessed with the math of 1 picture::1000 words here"
greg says, "i think some people are getting a bit too focused on the number of 1000, its just a phrase"
Bradley nods at greg.
KT-Woodard2 says, " each picture has more then one abstract to it that does not repeat itself"
Crista [to Jody]: "a set of pictures, with other mediums included, tell the story better, it, or seems here.
Yasukage has connected.
greg curses to himself for not being a faster typer
Jeremy says, "i agree with greg about the 1000 words just being a phrase"
KT-Woodard2 says, " skip the 1,000 unless it money that you wanna give me"
Jared says, "The exact ratio isn't the point...my point would be that pictures are, sometimes, even less economical than words."
Flanker39 says, "Yes it is a phrase. However, we can see some interesting elemnts, shuch as "Schlinder's List" were they willingly chose to make the film in black and white, except for a few bits of color."
magsmitch9 says, "no of course ots not 10000, but a pictuer does offer alot of infpormation about what it has in it"
Jared [to msantina]: I think he did. Can't remember his phrasing.
Jody says, "We can use pictures to convey feelings."
KT-Woodard2 says, "and colors"
Crista says, "a picture offers a larger concept of the event or person or whatever, in less space"
Julia rubs her legs and arms to keep warm
kelley says, "think of it this way, Crista and i discussed this the other day, in print the author has to say that the woman was wearing a blue dress, but on film they just show us that she's wearing a blue dress""
KT-Woodard2 says, " like I feel blue"
Crista hands julia a blanket
Bradley says, "I like the point Kelley made: we have to rethink the picture/word relationship after movies."
greg says, "i think, as everything in life, it depends on the picture and the words to how which means more"
Julia cries because the blanket is virtual
magsmitch9 says, "eactly and the color in shchinldlers list spoke volumes""
Bradley . o O ( speaking of blue, I am turning blue )
KT-Woodard2 says, " you can show the color blue or show blue doing something to abstracted the eye"
greg says, "if a picture is a detailed painting that displays emotion, it is priceless"
Crista says, "true, but a picture doesn't bring with it (textually anyway) the description"
Jared [to Jody]: True. The picture I mentioned would be one such example...there's another picture somewhere on the Net (run in Time originally, I think) of a young Vietnamese girl running away from a napalm attack that's totally heart-rending.
Crista hands braldey a blanket too, so he won't turn blue with cold
Jody says, "That brings to mind 'black & white' films that were colorized."
greg says, "however, a poem can do the same thing in a relatively low amount of words"
Flanker39 says, "A picture of me will show a lot about my size, build, and hint at personality due to my t-shirt of the day, but at the same time, it tells very little about me."
Julia says, "bradley just tried to jump out the windows"
Crista says, "bad bradley!"
greg points and laughs at all those who are cold
Flanker39 says, "out the buildings windows, or windows xp?"
magsmitch9 says, " but thats still info abput you and judging by the environment that could asy alot too""
MadHatter says, "me, I'm in my warm dorm room"
greg [to Flanker39]: building
kelley says, "when we watch a movie we're seeing something through someone elses eyes 'more importantly' the cameras'. the image that we once created from reading a novel all of a sudden takes form""
Jared [to Flanker39]: OS jokes are very nerdy. Sorry.
KT-Woodard2 says, "well its cold in here"
Bradley nods at kelley.
kelley says, "With that in mind we have to think about people who always say that the book was much better than the movie""
magsmitch9 says, "i agree kelley""
KT-Woodard2 says, " but yet we will like this air come firday when its 80"
Bradley says, "That's a good point, because the I/I stuff Ulmer talks about is done to some extent with movies."
Crista says, "there is no arguing with a movie, because it is unchangeable""
KT-Woodard2 says, "the book has more"
Bradley says, "The 'eye' of the camera is the image the director sees"
MadHatter says, "but sometimes it's the way around - a movie takes novel form"
Julia says, "yes but there is a certain feeling of disappointment when one watches a movie after reading the book; often the story is not portrayed the way we see it in our mind."
magsmitch9 says, "i alwyas wonder about that becuase it is a time honored debate...bokk vs movie that is""
Bradley nods at MadHatter.
Crista says, "unlike a book, which you can write into the margins or whatever, the changes you want to make if you want"
msantina says, "Books are always better than the movie. Books are much more descriptive and when it is placed into a actual movie, it loses a lot of it's content."
Jeremy says, "the book just allows you to make your own personal interpretations of characters appearance, a movie gives it to you"
Julia [to Crista]: i bet libraries hate you
Crista [to Julia]: "kelley and i talked about that too
KT-Woodard2 says, " i don't think people can sit in a theather for days to wacth the Color Purple because the wrote the moive word for word"
MadHatter says, "the book allows for more interpretation and more use of the imagination through subjectivness"
Crista [to Julia]: "i didn't say i did that
Flanker39 says, "I think you can argue about a movie. you can't change the movie yourself, but that brings us to the questionof distribution..."
Jared says, "Someone ought to post that web address for Sean."
Crista says, "i just knew people that did"
kelley says, "is dearer a word?""
Bradley [to Crista]: And again, another reason I'd like us to have some video editing stuff, because I'd like to see us cut up and work with movies
Crista says, "to their own books"
KT-Woodard2 says, " I think the get to the good parts and write them out"
KT-Woodard2 says, " thats what makes the movie"
greg [to msantina]: however books sometimes are confusing and the large description sometimes is just wordy and boring
KT-Woodard2 says, "thats why we have moives"
Jody says, "And human interpretations can't always be matched in technology."
kelley [to greg]: "so are movies"
Crista says, "books that have been made into movies often disappoint the audience because it isn't the way that the readers took the words off the page and imagined it"
greg [to msantina]: where as in movies, the description is shown in a concise manner
greg [to kelley]: how so?
KT-Woodard2 says, "i mean i like to read but sometimes i am like get to the point already"
Jared [to KT-Woodard2]: Some books make me feel that way too. But then, so do some movies.
kelley says, "movies can be really really bad""
[ 1:24 pm ]
Flanker39 says, "Movies will condense an entire novel to two hours, rahter than 8-10 hours of reading, depending on your speed. They also mostly cut out the first chapter that gives the physical descriptions of the characters, sicne you can actualy see them"
msantina [to greg]: Sometimes you have to decipher through the wordiness. In the midst of it lies good info.
greg [to kelley]: so can books
Crista [to KT-Woodard2]: "true, but in a book you could, mind you i say could not should, page ahead
Jeremy says, "are movies wrote like a book or are books wrote like a movie?"
Crista says, "in a theatre, you cannot do that"
greg says, "i've read some terrible books in my day\"
magsmitch9 says, " i think it works both ways...some movies are great becuase they fill in the blanks and that whihc we can not imagine comes to life and is fufillin g, other times books are so well written what we see in our head is better than what movie does and so you have to wonder ...""
KT-Woodard2 says, "" all depends on the plot and whos in them"
Crista says, "true, but in books, you don't have an actor or actress to associate with a particular role"
Bradley nods at magsmitch9.
msantina [to magsmitch9]: I can agree with that.
Flanker39 says, "It depends, some books will follow diffrent patterns. some of my longer works are a series of quick scences, like a movie montage, but tothers are long zoom outs."
Crista says, "you have to imagine the charater solely from the description written"
greg [to Crista]: i have people in my head 'acting' out the book
Julia [to Jeremy]: the web page covers that concept: A man moves from scenes in a movie like one would through a novel. Characters can appear on one page, disappear on the next, not to reappear until they are needed again.
kelley says, "its not a debate about which is better, its the idea that they share the imagery that we create""
Bradley [to magsmitch9]: And that's why I like the "Haiku/Movie" section of the page Crista and Kelley posted.
Crista [to greg]: "but are they hollywood actors/actresses?
msantina [to Crista]: I think that is the best part of books. Your imagination gets to take control.
greg says, "maybe i'm just odd, but i often imagine it as a movie in my head using background music and real-live people"
Julia says, "... but Oral cultures are unfamiliar with this concept, as in general, their world is continuous and linear, with no gaps in time. "
greg says, "well, maybe not real-live, but real-existing"
Bradley [to magsmitch9]: I think it shows that relationship without the "what's better" stuff
Crista [to msantina]: "exactly
magsmitch9 [to bradey] "how are you relating that again?"
Dave says, "I think if your imagination gets too much control its not a very good books"
magsmitch9 says, "oh nevermind""
Flanker39 says, "I also think some moves can bring new light to a book. Apocalypse Now is an interpetation of "Heart of Darknes" (joeseph conrand) which does the story justice"
MadHatter says, "when I think of a book, I often 'picture' it in my head as a movie"
magsmitch9 says, "hehehe...""
Bradley nods at Flanker39.
kelley says, "the I/I is the most crucial part of every persons perspective, it speaks for itself""
msantina [to Dave]: I don't agree.
KT-Woodard2 says, "i think that too about a book with pictures"
greg [to Dave]: i completely agree
msantina [to Dave]: You just get immersed into the book world.
Crista [to Dave]: "true and untrue, a book should include a lot of detail but it should let the reader's imagination take control a good portion of the time too
magsmitch9 says, "so do i i picture it in my head as a movie too...so thast kinda ironic then""
KT-Woodard2 says, " it reminds me of the DR. Sueses and the pop up books that i read as a child"
greg [to msantina]: books should be written so that my imagination is carefully guided through the story, not so that i can make up alot of things as i go
Flanker39 says, "The key point is that pictures provide an interpetation. I find movies about vietnam to have a better descritption of what the jungle is like than the actual first hand accounts of soldiers, but the soldeires sotries are more interesting since they really happended."
Bradley says, "You know, I think books that DO let the reader take control a little are getting to the "image reason" Ulmer talks about. That I/I interface"
KT-Woodard2 says, " we always looked at the pictures to tell use what the story about"
magsmitch9 says, "the real movie doesnt always cut it but we imagine books in that way""
Julia says, "like dawn and kelley wrote, movies have a stereotypical plotline... what is the stereotypical plotline?"
Crista says, "and if you have a personal reference to relate a book or movie too, then your imagination doesn't have as much to fill in"
kelley [to KT-Woodard2]: "that's a really good point, books with pictures fall into the childrens category"
Crista says, "or perhaps it makes you fill in even more"
msantina [to greg]: That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying when I'm reading a book, my imagination puts me there in that world. No, I don't be reading daydreaming about someone outside the book.
MadHatter says, "eh, it's all subjective"
Flanker39 says, "Lets see, the sterotype for action adventure: Villan pulls off a crime, hero gets mad. Hero stomps heads of heanchmen. Hero meets villian. Villian dies in an ironic manner"
KT-Woodard2 says, "the only way that we put images to a book with out pictures is useing are minds and imagtions and bascically put ourselves into the stories plot and setting"
Jared says, "This gets very tricky...but I would say that books should allow the reader to do a certain amount of the work themselves. Imagining what people look like is half the fun. If you want to provide all the visual imagery for your audience, go into TV or movies."
Jody says, "Sometimes the pictures in a book are there to lead the reader in the direction that the author desires."
Bradley [to msantina]: Though I do have problems daydreaming sometimes when I'm reading something I'm forced to read
Julia [to Flanker39]: right
greg [to msantina]: i see now, i'm not sure i agree, but i understand your point better now
Crista says, "since books with pictures are relegated to children, then why would they not be as approved for teenagers/adults"
Bradley [to msantina]: Or if my do list has 8148092 things on it
Crista says, "?"
msantina [to Bradley]: That is true. Who doesn't daydream while reading McLuhan.
kelley says, "five people go camping: two couples, one eccentric person and everyone dies except the loner' that kind of stereotype""
Julia [to Crista]: because our minds need to be challenged a little bit more....well...most of us...looks meaningfully at madhatter
Bradley [to msantina]: Hey now...
KT-Woodard2 says, "i guess the figure that we are at the age to know whats real and whats not"
Bradley grins at msantina.
KT-Woodard2 says, " we know what a fairy tale really is"
Jody says, "The same would be true of a web page. The web page author can lead the user through a certain topic, though it may not be in sequence."
greg sits at the picnic table beside Bradley.
Crista says, "but why shouldn't adults be helped along a little too? I know a lot of children who argue with the picture in their books because their imaginations presented a different picture for them"
Julia [to MadHatter]: are you paying attention?
Flanker39 says, "When an adult has the mind of a child, we lock them up, yet children may run free. We expect that adults have the background knoldge and experience to draw their own conclusions, yet children need help."
magsmitch9 says, "yes falnker 39, well said""
Jody says, "I think adults are helped along through the Internet. That is why it is so popular."
Bradley nods at Crista. "I really like the 'Theory Illustrated' books. The one about Foucault is brilliant."
kelley [to Crista]: "its about the ability to visualize on your own, be independent man"
Flanker39 says, "The pop up book of phobias..."
greg stands up from the picnic table.
kelley says, "but then that's what we all do when we go see a movie""
msantina [to Jody]: I never thought of the internet that way. That's interesting.
KT-Woodard2 says, " example of an adult with a mind of a child is Micheal Jackson"
Jody says, "I agree with Kelley."
greg laughs at flanker39
kelley says, "ok, he needs pictures""
Crista nods at kt-woodard2
Bradley chortles
magsmitch9 says, "and im done""
Julia [to KT-Woodard2]: yes, I agree, he's...he just doesn't understand stuff
Jared says, "Typo, Kaleena. You meant to say he's got his mind *on* a child."
Flanker39 says, "interstingly enough, the pop-up book of phobias is a real book! I've read it!"
Crista says, "i bet that was an interesting read"
KT-Woodard2 says, " its both"
msantina [to Jared]: That was low.
MadHatter [to Jared]: ooh, slam!!
Bradley [to Jared]: Ow
kelley says, "i don't get it""
KT-Woodard2 says, " half of the time the man wants and thinks that he is peter pan"
MadHatter says, "kelley, you don't want to"
Dave says, "I am so lost"
Jeremy says, "me too dave"
greg says, "i want to be peter pan"
Flanker39 says, "The internet is an element that lets us hunt down images and interpeteations for when we get lost"
Crista says, "go ahead greg"
Julia says, "i want to be like mike"
kelley says, "don't make a movie about it""
KT-Woodard2 says, " now you are scaring me greg"
Julia says, "...chael jordan"
Yasukage cuts down a wandering peasant.
Crista [to Julia]: "that'd be kinda difficult
MadHatter says, "I want to be a toys r'us kid"
Bradley [to greg]: Don't we all. But now, I'd love to talk about the last section of the web page they've posted...
KT-Woodard2 says, "so i guess you wanna kick it with the lost boys"
Jared [to Yasukage]: Isn't that against the samurai code?
Crista [to Dave]: "what are you lost about? maybe i can help
Bradley . o O ( Literate and Nonliterate: an Overview )
Julia [to Bradley]: i tried
Flanker39 says, "The peter pan movie this winte was really good, and had an interesting interpetation of the book - much darker than we normally think. It also had three dirent special effects compnies wokering on it."
Yasukage says, "Not really."
kelley says, "Mcluhan also compare TV to movies, and talks about how they are both 'advertising monsters""
greg chuckles
[ 1:34 pm ]
Julia [to Yasukage]: oh by the way, ETA for seppuku is 12:40 today
Crista says, "but yet tv is also a 'teaching machine'"
Jared says, "Okay...movies are very much tied to literate thought and culture, and contain elements of literacy in the way they tell stories. I think I understand."
Crista says, "according to Mcluhan"
Yasukage says, "Thanks Julia."
magsmitch9 says, "that movie was really good , wayyy too much sexual tension between wedny and peter though""
Flanker39 says, "Run for your lives...advertising is attacking. We need to understand why we have advertising, in additon to why we have hace it on a given media"
KT-Woodard2 says, " could you explain a little more on that"
kelley says, "yeah it teaches kids to bug th h. out of their parents to the point of beating someone up at Walmart to get the last Tickle Me Elmo""
Bradley [to Jared]: Right. But there are non-literate elements, too. That's the image reason Ulmer wants us to get at
Jeremy says, "we have advertising because money talks"
msantina says, "Must McLuhan be so dramatic? Come on, a "advertising monter"....."
KT-Woodard2 says, " networks need ads to make money"
MadHatter says, "tickle me elmo=bad"
Crista [to MadHatter]: "very
greg says, "lol"
KT-Woodard2 says, " sometimes I think that McLuhan was not in his right mind at times"
magsmitch9 says, "speaking of objects tallkign, first pictures now money...theme""
Flanker39 says, "Our capitalist society is based on the thrughput of goods and crass consumption with little thought to consequence. Advertising is a means of creating a need that isn't otherwise present and creating diesnt with ones life, so one will become a spineless consumer and a slave to the machine."
kelley says, "What did you guys think about the example we used in the overview, with the man leaving the screen""
Jared [to msantina]: I'm not sure if he's overstating the case. I mean, people spill blood over Tickle Me Elmo, Furbys, effing *Cabbage Patch Dolls*...what causes this?
MadHatter says, "television teaches people what is considered the 'norm'"
Jody says, "Do we let our expectations down when we visit a web page? Is that why there is no predictable sequence?"
Flanker39 says, "TV is a tool of the capitalists."
KT-Woodard2 says, " the media"
Bradley [to kelley]: That's definitely one of the literate things
MadHatter says, "pop culture"
Crista says, "what about the last point we made in that section about the 'stereotypical plotline'"
Flanker39 says, "Free speech costs several thousand dollars a second when it is telivised."
Dave says, "TV is a tool of the capitalists? no surprise there"
KT-Woodard2 says, " don't forget buddy too"
Yasukage says, "So? What do you propose to fix it?"
msantina says, "Bratty children and idiot parents who feel the need to give children everything they see on television. "
KT-Woodard2 says, " and kid sister"
kelley says, "we think its normal and call it a teaching device when a whole other culture thinks its magic""
Yasukage says, "Easy to criticize, hard to resolve."
KT-Woodard2 says, " i have seen many fights over that"
msantina [to Jared]: Just because you see it on television, it doesn't mean stampede the store and buy it.
greg [to msantina]: it doesn't
magsmitch9 says, "well and thats ironic how much free speech costs....it actually costs and no one is actually free to say totally what they want...its far from FREE""
Julia says, "I don't watch tv"
KT-Woodard2 says, " well thats the way media and the world works, nobodies perfect"
Jared says, "I dunno if it's fixable at this point, Yasukage. If we outlaw advertising, that's the end of TV...and crappy as it's been lately, I don't think it's ultimately a good thing to end television."
Julia says, "It's not too much of a problem except that I"m extrememly susceptible to commercials....ooooh, rogaine... I NEED THAT"
Jared [to msantina]: I agree. A lot of people don't, though.
Crista says, "does anybody have any thoughts on the stereotypical plotline?"
Bradley says, "Ulmer says that we need to model ourselves after advertising "
Flanker39 says, "We need to destroy the mdeia corporations. If you think about it, they are the greatest threats to democracy of all. They have transmison units, lots of money and spies/reporters everywhere. I've seen prgrams where reporters tag along with khmer rouge gurillas and film them laying land mines. if the media corporations actualy pulled on all their strings and finance, they could take over america! Plus they cantorll what we see, and think"
msantina [to Jared]: If we were to end televsion, it would be a lot of free time for kids to go and be deviant.
Yasukage says, "How do we destroy them?"
KT-Woodard2 says, "well we can try but they are getting bigger"
greg [to Crista]: yea, most things are either tragedy or comedy
Julia [to Crista]: we talked about that earlier.... I think there's a stereotypical plotline for each genre
greg says, "damn i sound like an english major"
Crista [to greg]: "that's because you are
Jared [to magsmitch9]: "Free speech" is a misleading term, I think. We have the freedom to say whatever we like...but to get it out to a mass audience is far from free in the monetary sense.
KT-Woodard2 says, " there was a time where meida and other corperations couldn't own more than one thing"
greg says, "it either starts in chaos and ends in order, or vice versa"
Dave says, "whats wrong with english majors? the world need waiters..."
Julia [to Crista]: but in a more generalized sense, there's rising action, climax, falling action
greg thinks dear god what am i saying
Bradley [to Crista]: And there are visual/imagistic devices that become typical as well. Fade in and out, etc
Julia [to Dave]: SHUT UP I'M GONNA BE FAMOUS
Yasukage commits seppuku.
Crista says, "what kelley and i meant about the stereotypical plotline was how for example, scary movies are horribly predictable"
Jared [to msantina]: Like kids don't find time to be deviant now :) So parents would actually have to start being parents again, or spend some of that HBO bill on a babysitter.
KT-Woodard2 says, " but when Clinton got into office and pass that 1996 bill people like Disney Started owning everything"
greg [to Julia]: yea, and i'm going to pitch for the chicago cubs
Flanker39 says, "Freedom of the press is limited to those who own a printing press. We must crete a new channel of distribution, and impair the old ones so they do not impede the creation of the new order"
Jared [to Julia]: Only if they televise your last stand at the clock tower.
Jared runs!
Julia [to greg]: wow, can i have your autograph?
magsmitch9 says, "yeah excpet its not free when WIU students have to check with authorities about what they do in the free shpeech zone, whihc is no longer on this campus becuase people rioted the hyporctical nature of it""
Bradley says, "Well, we gotta wrap this up; lemme grab the helm here"
Julia [to Jared]: you're first.
greg signs a wiffleball bat and hands it to julia
Crista hands off to bradley
Julia swoons
msantina [to Jared]: That's too much like right. HBO is the parent and babysitter these days.
Bradley says, "Since Kelley and Crista (Dawn) have set the stage: I want everyone to read Ch. 29 of McLuhan for Friday"
KT-Woodard2 says, " thats right Julia you are writing things like romance novels for lonley and despreated people"
Julia [to KT-Woodard2]: don't knock it til you've read it
Bradley says, "read their web page... that's gonna be the focus of discussion"
greg edges ever so close to a non-suspecting puppy that has wandered into the area
Jared [to KT-Woodard2]: Crappy romance novels are where the money is, though.
Bradley says, "Let's meet in 214"
Crista says, "go greg"
KT-Woodard2 says, "" so its chapter 29 for Friday and chapter 31 and 33 for when"
Julia puts greg in her sight
Dave says, "thank god"
KT-Woodard2 says, "ok"
Flanker39 says, "All the world is a stage, and we are meerly actors. Unfortuanatly, I can't tell if its a tragedy or a farce, everyone seems to be adlibbing, and theres not enough dance numbers. plus I can't see the audiance anywhere. Special effects are half way decent though."
msantina says, "I'll write a crappy romance novel for the money it pays."
greg picks up the puppy, flings it at julia, knocking her unconcious
kelley says, "we're not naturally built to have television or movies that's why its hard to try and break the ideas down and understand it. and that's illustrated with the nonliterate and literate cultures""
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: Later, if at all. Let's run with this
Julia aims
Bradley [to greg]: Dude
greg watches the puppy walk away unharmed
Julia says, "because she's not really unconcious"
Bradley says, "whew,"
KT-Woodard2 says, " poor puppy"