MOO log: Ulmer, “Image”
[log started Mon Apr 12 13:02:02 2004 EDT]
Participants: greg, cyn, msantina, Dave, Jeremy, Flanker39, Jody, magsmitch9, MadHatter, KT-Woodard2, Yasukage, Julia, Roux, Jared, Bradley, kelley, and Crista
Bradley turns the Bradley's recorder on.
MadHatter says, "ahhh"
Dave says, "ello everyone"
MadHatter says, "okay"
Crista says, "hello bradley"
MadHatter says, "Hello Davew"
Roux has connected.
MadHatter says, "stupid keyboard!!"
Bradley grins
Flanker39 says, "so what will we be doing today? (The same thing we do every day, try to take over the world...)"
Julia has connected.
Bradley says, "I have a few page numbers & quotes to mention from the Ulmer essay, so y"
MadHatter says, "has it been decided what game we will play, if we play one?"
Flanker39 says, "Note to self: get incompetent assistant to say narg"
Bradley says, "'all might get it out"
kelley has connected.
KT-Woodard2 has connected.
MadHatter [to Bradley]: I was not able to read much of Ulmer because my dad was in the hospital this weekend cause he nearly had a heart attack -- sorry
Julia looks around for book, then realizes she hasn't been home since Friday, and hasn't had a chance to pick it back up.
Julia [to MadHatter]: sorry to hear that
MadHatter [to Julia]: thanks
Bradley says, "Today I want to introduce Ulmer's stuff, get you to talk about it, etc"
Crista says, "sorry kyle"
Bradley says, "but first"
MadHatter says, "thank you"
Bradley says, "I won't have office hours tomorrow"
KT-Woodard2 says, " I read Ulmer and he talked about Haiku"
Bradley says, "and"
Bradley says, "I want to ask if anyone has questions about the final assignment, after (re)reading it this weekend"
Flanker39 says, "A snail climbs mount fuji, but slowly slowly"
MadHatter says, "I love writing Haiku"
Flanker39 says, "Hi ki, yu ku, we all ku for hiaku..."
KT-Woodard2 says, " and when he talked about that all I could think about is 5-7-5"
Bradley says, "Hold those thoughts for a minute. I do want to talk about that"
Flanker39 says, "But in seriousness, he states that a major part of haiku is leaving out the elements of description we normaly expect"
Jeremy [to Bradley]: do you recommend any websites or places to find good poems, because i have no idea where to find them
KT-Woodard2 says, " I have a question about the final"
kelley [to Crista]: "not very long, i have a rough draft due at 2, i was looking for you before class"
Julia [to Jeremy]: I write poetry :)
MadHatter [to Bradley]: can we use poems that we ourselves have written
Bradley [to Jeremy]: Web sites: gutenberg.org. But you might find it easier to get a poetry anthology from the library
KT-Woodard2 says, " I wanted to know if you could explain project two chose number 1"
Jeremy [to Julia]: my roomate does too
MadHatter [to Bradley]: cause I write a lot of poetry
Julia [to Bradley]: so we don't count?
Jeremy [to Bradley]: thank you
KT-Woodard2 says, " I didn't really under stand it and I might have took it the wrong way"
Bradley [to Julia]: Sure, you count. But, you don't have 1000 poems to pick from
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: I'd rather not explain it. I will take questions.
Julia [to Bradley]: WANNA BET
greg has connected.
Flanker39 says, "Chaos reigns within.Reflect, repent, and reboot.Order shall return (error message in haiku, I didn't write it though""
Bradley [to Julia]: Ooops, didn't I say 1000 *good* poems?
Bradley ducks
KT-Woodard2 says, " So can I just pick a couple of Haiku's or so and use that as a project to add hypertext to them"
Jared says, "Bwaha."
Julia [to Bradley]: http://www.geocities.com/jufo_81/Poetry ...and I hate you.
MadHatter says, "shame, Bradley!! Shame!!"
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: It's not a matter of adding hypertext. You want to think about recasting the works completely
Julia says, "so maybe I don't have 1000 POSTED..."
Bradley says, "And it may not be good to pick haiku, since as Ulmer notes, haiku is already doing image reason"
Crista says, "kelley?"
KT-Woodard2 says, " http://www.ahapoetry.com/haiku.htm"
greg [to Bradley]: but in that same context, isn't all poetry, excluding free verse, doing image reason
magsmitch9 has connected.
Crista [to Bradley]: "yeah, that is true
MadHatter says, "I just started my blog - grayskies316.blogger.com"
Flanker39 says, "In short, images, though perhaps worth a 1000 words (except for mine, since I often forget to take the lens cap off) but pictures still leave a lot to question"
MadHatter says, "at least I think that is it"
Bradley [to greg]: Good point. A lot of it is. But some of it does not. And I think free verse or quatrains or whatever could do image reason equally
Julia [to MadHatter]: congratulations: http://dreamcollision.blogspot.com
Julia [to MadHatter]: haha
Bradley says, "For example, I don't get the powerful images from Shakespeare that I do from Jack Gilbert"
Flanker39 says, "Diffrent people interpet pictures diffrently. How someone puts them in order changes the meaning of the images provided"
Julia says, "but doesn't that have something to do with what you've studied?"
Roux says, "so we could use Shakespeare for this assignment?"
MadHatter says, "http://grayskies.blogspot.com"
kelley [to Crista]: "Narcosis, and his negativity towards tech."
Bradley [to Roux]: Sure. If it works for you
MadHatter [to Julia]: Nyah!!
Flanker39 says, "Three pictures of a man, each showing him bigger than the next - is he growing, is he shrinking, is easch progressivly closer?"
MadHatter [to Julia]: but only in good-natured jest
greg says, "how about shell sylverstien(sp?)"
[ 1:12 pm ]
kelley [to Crista]: "nope"
Flanker39 says, "How about less barker and the story of spot the zebra (zeh-bra, he's brittish)"
Jared says, "Most of Shel Silverstein'"
KT-Woodard2 says, " there was one sonnet by shakespear when he mocks other men about how they brag abouth their women"
Julia [to greg]: shel silverstein isn't considered "Great," though he does do a wonderful job of making poetry fun
Jared says, "Most of Shel Silverstein's poems already came with illustrations."
KT-Woodard2 says, " i thought that had some good imageing their"
Bradley [to greg]: Shel is pretty good about images, don't you think? But you might be able to use him. Again, I think that as Ulmer says, the i/they and i/i aspects need to be considered
Jeremy [to Bradley]: and you said if we like to we can use verses of a song too right
greg says, "my point is that in his books, all his poetry is already illustrated in some way"
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: OK, so that might be a good start.
Flanker39 says, "You guys do realise that silverstien has quite a bit of poetry dealing with non-child friendly topisc (the great marajuna smoke off comes to mind) though indeed, that cerats an intersting image - how do you rent a stadium for the express purpose of watching two people smoke?"
Bradley [to greg]: Right. The bad think about using those illustrations---and he has a LOT more than kids' poetry---would be that you repeat his expressions
KT-Woodard2 says, "i didn't know that"
greg says, "basically, i'm calling out the project because ulmer is wrong, all poetry is already visually stimulating in some way"
Bradley grins at greg.
Bradley says, "So use a short story."
greg says, "blast""
KT-Woodard2 says, " I also think that Langston Hughes was images in his works too"
Bradley says, "Or a syllabus."
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: Definitely.
MadHatter says, "if we choose a short story, do you want us to focus on the theme of it or just the story in general?"
Flanker39 says, "I would argure that all stories, poems, and good technicla documents have imagtes, but it is the bad ones that don't"
Bradley [to MadHatter]: That's up to you. But what I don't want is plot summary, so to speak. Make the story work as image reason.
magsmitch9 [to Bradley] "ok im a littel confused ...i definately came in five minutes too late...what excactly are we focusing on when considering imaging?"
Bradley says, "Let's take up Maggie's question by looking at Ulmer a bit; we can return to the assignment if needed."
MadHatter [to Bradley]: yeah, what magsmitch said
Flanker39 says, "And furthermore, we have the writers creedo show, don't tell. This is why buwlyer lyton, the man who coined the term the pen is mighter than the sword, is constantly parodied by snoopy - he stupidly started a nove it was a dark and storymy night."
Bradley says, "The first think I want to talk about is 43---the bullet point"
Crista [to magsmitch9]: "i'm confused too
KT-Woodard2 says, "How would you go about doing that to make it into a image, do you take a word or a sentence out of a story, or poem and then hypertext it to some kind of meaning"
MadHatter [to Crista]: you two aren't the only ones
KT-Woodard2 says, " page 43 in Ulmer"
Crista [to MadHatter]: "well i understand it a little but i'm still a little confused
Crista [to MadHatter]: "it just seems too simple
Bradley says, "Or rather, I want you to talk about it. What's up with the bullet comment"
MadHatter [to Crista]: it really does
Bradley sits at the picnic table.
Crista [to MadHatter]: "at least i'm not the only one who thinks that
Crista sits on the ground
KT-Woodard2 says, " i think that umler has put together how you can see a image in two diffrent ways"
Flanker39 says, "we think in terms of images. we don't hear the word chair, we hear it and then imagine a place to sit."
KT-Woodard2 says, " or he is telling how to do one of the final projects"
Flanker39 says, "The TAO that can be seen is not the real TAO"
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: That's one answer. And what are those two ways?
MadHatter says, "or when we hear the word chair the first thing that our mind thinks of is an image"
Julia says, "four wooden legs"
Bradley [to Flanker39]: You see that in Ulmer? Thinking in terms of images? Do you have a quote?
magsmitch9 says, "ok thats great about the chair but how does that relate to the bullet poiint, in fact i dont understand alot about bullet points because i need a reference to how it applies in every day situations...""
Jeremy says, "you see the picture as it is and then you see it on an emotional level because every picture evokes some emotion"
Bradley says, "Jeremy has synthesized the bullet point on 43 with the next page"
Flanker39 says, "Well, ok, you see a chair, but how does a chair make you feel? is it a stool for weary days, or a reclier for the football game?"
kelley says, "the word chair is spelled C-H-A-I-R, and each letter has its own essense""
magsmitch9 says, "ok im with jeremy and i get that and I think that goes without saying...everyhting we see we react to without even knowing it....we have to in order to understand the world""
Crista says, "so what we want to do is use images to evoke an emotion in the viewers of that part of our site"
KT-Woodard2 says, "ok i get it"
Bradley [to magsmitch9]: Ah, but I think Ulmer's point is that (1) it doesn't go without saying, and (2) that literacy tells us to repress the emotional and the imagistic
Flanker39 says, "images we see also evoke a reaction. The question is what determines weather that reaction is sit down, step aside, smash...etc."
Bradley says, "In the bullet point, as Kaleena noted, Ulmer identifies verbal and pictorial images. That trend continues. See also 46-7"
Crista says, "it also depends on who is looking, one person might get a certain emotion from a certain image, another might get a completely different one because of personal references"
[ 1:22 pm ]
Jeremy says, "yes, every person will have their own interpretation"
Bradley [to Crista]: Yes. And that subjective nature is actively repressed by literacy. At least for certain works, we're supposed to create text which is 'clear and simple as the truth'---which requires no interpretation
MadHatter says, "so is ulmer trying to say that images are a part of our language as well?"
magsmitch9 says, "everything we see we put inot an image and that image holds importance or it doestn ....thats teh way we get through the day by interpreting everything whether it be easy or hard...when you walk into a classroom youve identified the image of a classroom and know thats where you are...hence a safe place...when you enter abn elevator you know you will be going Up....if you walk outside and see a dead dog...u might stop and have to process that image....it will rpoabbly evoke an emotional responce...its what we do"
KT-Woodard2 says, " so if a text would say, the sky poured clear rain full of feeling bule, that can be turned into an inmage with a picture or an words to explain itself"
Flanker39 says, "As a writer, I don't think that we should be repressing the image. I think the problem is that we repress it too much. How many of us have read genera fiction novesl that are for all intensive purposes the same? They don't go any farther than necesary so they can meat their deadlines."
KT-Woodard2 says, " i mean blue"
Bradley [to MadHatter]: Yes. Language is imagistic.
Crista [to Bradley]: "however, the text is also subjective
magsmitch9 says, "i think that is how it goes without saying that imaging is how we process""
Crista [to Bradley]: "and requires interpretation
Bradley [to Crista]: Some would argue otherwise. No Spin Zone...fair and balanced...just the facts...
MadHatter says, "wouldn't the subjectivity depend on the emotional response invoked by each individual person?"
kelley says, "language, not literacy, so therefore the only image literature creates is the letters themselves without imagined illustrations that they create""
Crista [to MadHatter]: "exactly
MadHatter [to Crista]: yay
Julia 's head explodes
Bradley [to kelley]: But what content do the letters contain? They are abstract. Is a German A different than an English A?
KT-Woodard2 says, "ok I am lost here"
Bradley [to MadHatter]: Yes, absolutely, and that's one of Ulmer's central points
MadHatter says, "can someone pick up the pieces of Julia's head, please? it's all sticky"
Dave says, "I even got lost on that ones"
magsmitch9 says, "yes, kelley""
Crista says, "seriously, anything that is written is up to personal interpretation"
Crista says, "for example, the dog runs""
MadHatter says, "that is why you can never really understand any art because in order to understand it you have to be its source"
Crista says, "to someone like me, who is utterly terrified of dogs, that evokes that kind of response"
Bradley [to Crista]: But a lot of people would say that's a sign of bad writing. Rewrite your sentence so it's clear and simple.
Julia blindy reaches for head pieces
kelley [to Bradley]: "i'm talking about the two different way of seeing these images"
MadHatter says, "you can only interpret your own meaning"
KT-Woodard2 says, "personal interpretation meaning how do you look and interpreted the object in your own words"
magsmitch9 says, "yes but thats the point....youre still interpreting it, hence responding to the image""
Bradley [to kelley]: Keep talking.
Bradley wipes brain off his lapel
MadHatter says, "aah, I stepped in brain!!"
Flanker39 says, "Going back to fridays coments - a story is when you have certian facts, and discourse as to why they occured, along with a plot which plans it out, and a theme that is a lesson to be gained. so do we want a society that has just the facts, or do we want the discourse as well. The discourse takes longer, and requries more thought, but then again, a world without it..."
Julia signs an apology to Bradley because she can't speak yet
greg pushes julias headless body
kelley says, "leave out the representation and whatever reaction you have to a chair, and picture a chair (however it is described) or plainly see the word on paper in text form with black ink whatever""
Roux says, "so there is a different reaction to words that are spoken versus words that are written?"
magsmitch9 says, "how would we have the facts without the discourse""
MadHatter says, "Whooaa! (slips and falls on piece of Julia's brain)"
Julia says, "so are we trying to figure out what gives us mental imagery?"
KT-Woodard2 says, "a world with out plot requires much thought?"
Bradley [to kelley]: That's so hard to do, as Ong reminded us. But that does get to the idea of the third or obtuse meaning that Ulmer starts with here
Jared [to Roux]: I would say so...the written word is more "neutral", but spoken words carry with them our preconceptions about the speaker and his/her tone of voice, delivery, etc.
Flanker39 says, "At home we have a painting of a seascape, that is made entirely of hair thin lines of color. Individualy, each line is almost invisible, but togetehr they show sunset over mountains and rocks. the line is a fact, the image is a discourse seen from afar."
kelley says, "why is that hard to do, i think McLuhan would agree, is there some kind of narcosis here""
MadHatter says, "if we interpret things as images, it would be interesting to try and understand how a blind person would interpret things cause they use other sensory perceptions"
Bradley [to Roux]: I think so, though I think that's less the point here than the difference between thinking in a logical sense and thinking in an emotional/imagistic sense
Bradley nods at kelley.
Bradley nods at MadHatter.
KT-Woodard2 says, "i think the way we daydream gives use mental imagery"
MadHatter says, "what do the blind daydream about, though?"
Bradley [to MadHatter]: But to stay on topic: look at 44
Flanker39 says, "Duck!"
greg ducks
Flanker39 says, "Call to crouch or animal?"
--------------------------------- Bradley ---------------------------------
The meanings that are namable...
-------------------------- Bradley stops pasting --------------------------
Jared [to MadHatter]: The same stuff we do, only without visuals. I assume.
Bradley says, "that paragraph"
KT-Woodard2 says, "let your imagination run wild"
Bradley says, "Barthes, who Ulmer quotes, shows the personal nature of this image reason here"
Crista says, "yeah..."
Bradley says, "He's trying to figure out something we've talked about a lot: how do we figure out the difference between our personal, subjective take, and that which is commonly accepted as fact?"
MadHatter says, "so then if you see a photo of a fire you think hot (studium) but also some other emotional response (Punctum), perhaps?"
Bradley says, "and look that Ulmer says, in a move that would please Manovich:"
Crista says, "you cannot separate the two"
Bradley | in the effect of having two databases to call upon
greg says, "that which is commonly accepted as fact is just what alot of people seem to agree on"
Julia says, "are you talking about ......how do I know my blue is your blue.....?"
Crista says, "exactly"
Jeremy says, "one effects the other"
Crista says, "i think"
Flanker39 says, "The diffrence is that your emotions are expressed by how you arange the facts, and given a number of them, which do you presnt first?"
Jared says, "I dunno. I don't think there's exactly a failsafe way to do it. I think you have to consider the context of the image, and accept that in some cases your studium will overlap with another's punctum."
Bradley nods to Greg. "But the *personal* reaction an image makes in you might differ from the common, "factual" one.
kelley says, "in the discussion board we talked about being objective, and leaving out the i in our writing, maybe focus on what the author says when he says i, and not us it's his chair not ours see how we can imagine his chair""
Bradley . o O ( and Jared uses the right terms here )
magsmitch9 says, "fact is so subjective too...therefore how we interpret fact is sorta confusing""
Crista says, "you cannot generalize a personal response"
KT-Woodard2 says, "Ulmer syays that grammatological analogy sugguets that we find the beginnings of our iamge alternative to the definition by observeing closely the photographs of things"
[ 1:32 pm ]
Crista says, "you cannot make it the same for everybody"
greg [to Crista]: why not
KT-Woodard2 says, "well Barthes says it"
Crista says, "because you cannot make the experiences the same"
Bradley [to KT-Woodard2]: No, that's Ulmer.
MadHatter [to magsmitch9]: because what is fact for one may be fiction for another - we all have our own truths
kelley says, "so we do lose something when we take out subjectivity/I in lit. because someone has to say it""
KT-Woodard2 says, "signifiance is a word that i tried to get also"
kelley says, "our make it persoal for them for us to feel something or be moved""
Bradley [to kelley]: The essays I see some students write, who think I'll flunk 'em if they use "I", certainly backs that assertion
Flanker39 says, "You can not describe a picture if you won't have the words to describe it. Thats one of the tenets that lets THE PARTY controll the people in 1984 - alter the langunage so people can't comunicate ideas about freedom."
Bradley says, "Look on 45: "
KT-Woodard2 says, " the articles says that its obtuse"
Julia says, "but "I" am...er... is important"
Bradley | It is important to remember....
magsmitch9 [to madhatter] " i completely agree, thats why the concept of fact seems arbitrary"
MadHatter [to kelley]: I agree. If you take out the subjectivity you lose the studium or punctum
Crista [to Bradley]: and kelley "students are taught from early one that to use the word i in an essay was fail-worthy"
Bradley [to MadHatter]: You lose the punctum. Not the studium
Bradley says, "Look on 45: "
MadHatter says, "ahh, because the studium has a more direct response"
Bradley | It is important to remember....
kelley says, "you don't need to have subjectivity in original pieces,but when writing an essay about someone elses, then you need to generally describe it as an audience""
Flanker39 says, "I indicates the source. Students are tought they are not a relibale soucre of information and must find it from someone elese. In short, not using I teaches children they must be part of a group, and can not make an argument by themselves"
Bradley [to MadHatter]: Less direct. The studium is the "I/he or she" meaning. The punctum is I/I
Bradley says, "See the comment on 57"
Julia [to Flanker39]: it may have something to do with sounding more professional, and not so much self-centered, as most children are
MadHatter [to Bradley]: so you lose a more personal response then?
magsmitch9 [to flanker39] "exactly"
Flanker39 says, "But if you are professional, then you do refrence yourself, since you are the knoldgeable one and have gone thrugh training, otherwise you wouldn't be a professional"
Bradley [to MadHatter]: When? You would lose it when?
KT-Woodard2 says, " what does he mean by foreground communications"
MadHatter [to Julia]: in most college papers we are taught to write down ourselves as 'this expert'
Bradley doesn't understand the question
Crista [to Julia]: "it's generally more than just sounds less self-centered
Julia [to MadHatter]: hahaha what? I have never heard that
Bradley was an expert once. It hurt
MadHatter [to Julia]: that is how I was taught
KT-Woodard2 says, " I mean I kind of understand the "others" and the "self" "
Crista [to Julia]: "it's more of being seen as an authority on the subject, which through research, they still aren't
greg pokes himself in the eye
Flanker39 says, "It is destruction of the self to make one a part of society."
Crista flinches at greg's actions
MadHatter [to Julia]: don't ask me -- I laughed when I was told to do that
KT-Woodard2 says, "oh ok"
Jared [to Julia]: (and Flanker too) This is one of the dilemmas I face at the writing center, helping students with their papers...using "I" too much makes you sound self-centered and lazy, but sometimes it's the most direct way to get your meaning across. Not to mention that not all instructors feel the same way about it...some do hate it and will mark students down for using it.
kelley says, "I never use I""
Jared [to MadHatter]: I have never heard that, either.
Dave says, "I really like using I, but Ia m self centered. But I prefer to use third person refernces to myself"
KT-Woodard2 says, " useing I to me meant that you actually exprience what is being written about"
MadHatter [to Bradley]: the question that I was trying to make is that if we lose the punctum, and it is the I/I, then doesn't it mean that we lose a personal response as well?
KT-Woodard2 says, " but thats not the case"
greg says, "I would agree with jared on the whole using "I" because it depends on the paper"
MadHatter [to Jared]: I was taught that at the community college I went to back home
Flanker39 says, "I am not saying that the lack of I is a bad thing per say, just that it is a culturaly conditioned part of us. Ok, I think that I should be abel to refrence my peronal knoldge, but that is only what I think"
Crista says, "i tend to be over-conservative in my use of I, however, if i know the teacher wants a personal response, i still have a hard time switching tacks, but i include it"
magsmitch9 says, "thats a huge debate...I was taught 1-12th grade not to use "I", i get to collge and teachers dont have a preference...i feel thats too much leniency""
MadHatter [to Jared]: John Wood Community College
Bradley [to MadHatter]: OK. Thanks. I think Ulmer is arguing that. Literacy represses the punctum. We need things to help us express it.
MadHatter [to Bradley]: sorry for confusing you
magsmitch9 says, "what would help us experess the punctum""
Bradley [to MadHatter]: No way, I like being confused. It's how I learn
Julia says, "this expert chooses not to use the self-reflective pronoun in her papers."
kelley says, "we need to lose that punctum in essays because what people have been saying throughout the semester, you can't speak for everyone even if it is a personal topic in the essay you are provoking""
Bradley [to magsmitch9]: That, dear student, is the final project assignment
Bradley grins widely
MadHatter says, "hahaha, Julia"
magsmitch9 says, "yeah....i was hoping you'd just drop a hint ...thats all""
Crista [to Bradley]: "i'm confused
Bradley [to kelley]: Well, or at least we're TOLD we need to lose the punctum
Bradley says, "SO"
Dave says, "Dave is confused"
Roux says, "so images help express the punctum?"
MadHatter [to Bradley]: so you want us to choose images that also invoke the same responses that the text we chose invokes?
Bradley says, "let's think about a few specific concepts here:"
Bradley . o O ( I'll read the log for questions later )
Flanker39 says, "Jason does not refer to himself in third person, because Jason is an idividual with personal thoughts. Jason is not a spererate object that has thoughts as a quality."
Bradley says, "voice and mood"
Bradley says, "feelings and logic"
KT-Woodard2 says, "well being confuse hurst my head and makes me think about this project even more on terms if I am doing it right"
[ 1:42 pm ]
Bradley says, "felt and text"
Julia [to Flanker39]: copycat.
Dave says, "Dave no like copycat. and Dave is strongest one there isn"
MadHatter says, "all of these pairs are defined by each other in that one affect the other, right?"
Bradley says, "those last two are important. Ulmer suggests that we use the idea "felt" instead of "text." So let's talk about that in detail."
greg laughs at dave
Bradley says, "First, text: what's the literal meaning of that?"
MadHatter says, "third person speak is scary"
magsmitch9 says, " ever see the episode of sienfeld where all communication breaks down becuase a guy elaine knows from the gym referes to himself in the third person alll the time and everyone thinks he's someone else""
KT-Woodard2 says, "tex is what is written"
KT-Woodard2 says, "text"
Roux says, "text is words that are written"
Dave says, "my question in regards to the last project is-to you want us to name the work we are representing? or do you want to attempt to figure it our through our images?"
Flanker39 says, "Sometimes its not about being orginal, its about knwoing when to copy at the right time. Sometimes its about using the riqht quote to get the feel rather than a long list of text"
kelley says, "jimmy!""
magsmitch9 says, "that is why the "I" in important""
Jared says, "One supernaturally handsome and virile graduate student agreed that occasional use of third person was okay."
MadHatter says, "yes -- that episode was funny"
Bradley says, "Ulmer may not make this clear, but the Greeks used an analogy to sewing---textile"
KT-Woodard2 says, " i think i saw that"
MadHatter says, "George did it too, though"
Bradley says, "which are very highly structured."
KT-Woodard2 says, "George had issues"
Bradley says, "regular patterns. Logical. Organized."
Roux says, "can't complicated be grouped into that"
Bradley says, "Ulmer proposes 'felt' instead of 'text' because, well, feelings."
Bradley says, "So instead of making ordered, logical, unemotional TEXT"
Bradley says, "we make emotional, obtuse, FELTS"
greg says, "man, ulmer's so clever"
Bradley nods at greg.
Bradley [to greg]: For English nerds, that's a laugh riot
Julia says, "example, please?"
MadHatter says, "which explains why things are subjective"
Crista says, "we want to recreate a text into a pictoral representation intended to evoke emotion""
KT-Woodard2 says, "so text is when you just read words and felts is when you express them or what"
Crista says, ""
magsmitch9 says, "so what is that saying then about out needs as humans that we create these felts"
Flanker39 says, "Good writing should evoke feeling in the reader - prfoflunce is the name for when you are so engrossed in a story you literaly can't put the book down - "
MadHatter says, "because they are obtuse"
Crista says, "?"
kelley says, "but naturally, we feel that way, its just hard to break down and describe how one feels about their feelings and text""
Bradley [to Crista]: That sounds pretty good: but not only pictorial. Imagistic: that could be text; it could be pictorial.
MadHatter says, "I would say that felts is when you gain an emotional response toward the text, like a hidden meaning or a theme in it that you find personal in a way"
KT-Woodard2 says, " too many feelings can interp or misinterp text"
magsmitch9 says, "no good writing does jot always evoke feelings....that again is really opinion based...not all good writing appeals to everyone""
Flanker39 says, "-the problem is that the writer is working with an imaginary audiance, and need to visualize how the readers react, or how (s)he wants the readers to react"
Roux says, "this is a whole new way of thinking about how we think and write, it will take a lot of "re-conditioning" in order for felts to be obtuse"
Bradley [to Roux]: Yes! Definitely.
Jeremy says, "no matter what we look at there is going to be some kind of personal emotion evoked by it, it may not be a big one but one will come up"
Julia says, "The shivering, soaked puppy waited patiently outside the forbidding back door, sure that soon his loving owner would come to his rescue and save him from the cold drip, drip, drip of the rain from the eaves."
Bradley [to Roux]: But we can think about it the other way, too: the reason we are doing a lot of new thinking is because we have a new technology
kelley says, "Shakespeare knew all this""
magsmitch9 [to jeremy] "thats what i was trying to say earlier....glad someone agrees"
Julia 's puppy bites greg's cat, exhausted from all the shivering
magsmitch9 [to kelley]"oh my, how true how true"
Bradley [to kelley]: Maybe. But do we?
MadHatter says, "Shakespeare had to --- all of the theatre houses could be shut down by the royal family if they didn't like the plays he wrote"
greg kicks julia puppy in the head until it lies on the ground motionless
Jared [to Julia]: The response to that would be *mostly* universal because of our instincts to protect and nurture small cute things. On the other hand, some people don't like dogs or are naturally cruel. They'd probably find that image amusing.
kelley says, "that's what should inspire people to write in the first place""
KT-Woodard2 says, "i guess you say that we do in some ways"
MadHatter says, "he needed to know what emotions to invoke that would be appealing"
Bradley eyes greg warily.
Bradley says, "No puppy killing in the campground, please"
Jared points at greg. "See what I mean?"
Flanker39 says, "morgan paused under the streetalmp, lit a cigrete with a lighter flickering from the rain. he saw a lonely puppy, and thought back to the brighter days"
Crista cheers for greg
Crista says, "see above dog comment"
MadHatter [to Julia]: oh, poor julia puppy
Julia 's puppy's loving owner comes to the puppy's rescue, only to find himself confronted with a choice: Beat greg's cat senseless, or use the shotgun in his hand. He looked down at greg's cat, and lifted his shotgun.
Jared found that a little disturbing, to be honest.
Bradley says, "Since we are sans Sean today..."
Bradley commits seppuku
KT-Woodard2 says, " no killing dogs"
KT-Woodard2 says, " no shot guns"
Bradley [to kelley and Crista]: So are we MOO for Wednesday?
Flanker39 says, "yeah, flechette rifles are more fun!"
MadHatter says, "ok, the professor just committed suicide -- great, now who teaches?"
Jeremy says, "you cannont kill dogs here but you can commit seppuku....doesn't make sense"
Julia 's puppy's owner finds himself shooting blanks ....?
greg enters a zen like state
Julia says, "NOW who is going to turn off bradley's recorder?"
Crista [to Bradley]: "yes from me, but check with kelley
Flanker39 says, "That was zen, this is tao!"
KT-Woodard2 says, "i don't know"
Julia turns off Bradley's recorder
Flanker39 says, "we can't take it off the tabel"
[ 1:52 pm ]
Bradley [to Julia]: Nice try
greg says, "and this discussion is completely on track"
MadHatter says, "can't shut it off - it is haunted by a ghost that screams 'NNNEEERRRDDD!'"
Crista says, "kelley??????"
Bradley [to greg]: It is, mostly
magsmitch9 says, "I WISH THE CONEPCT OF TODAYS DISCUSSION WERE AS EASILY UNDERSTOOD ABAND ENTERTAINMENING AS THE PUPPY!!:)""